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HSE does well in FT's global EMBA rankings

The Financial Times does a complex ranking list of business schools every year. They do some research, send plenty of questionnaires to graduated students, and talk to faculty members. They also check up on the details randomly, etc.

The school I got my Executive MBA degree from; Helsinki School of Economics, has scored its highest ranking yet: 67, globally. They were 77 last year, and 80 a year before that. Good progress and pace. HSE used to be the only Finnish business school with a full international accreditation; which means that it is the only one certified for its academic quality and content. Nowdays the Hanken School of Economics (a swedish language school) has earned an accreditation as well (but only for their EMBA programme, not for other stuff). Number 1 in FT's ranking was Columbia/London Business School, the full list is here.

Some interesting remarks from the list:

- HSE graduated executives seem to earn over 27,000 USD more annually (in average) than their colleagues from Stockholm School of Economics. Why do the Swedes get paid less? Also Stockholm's rank in 2006 was number 38, and they have now dropped to 50, are they not doing that well?

- Kellogg's business school in Hong Kong boasts a bloated salary of 345,159 USD annually, which is a few hundred thousand more than the Finns or the Swedes ;-) and this is average salary so somebody in the upper median is earning millions there.

- Graduates from the IE Business School in Spain have had their salary increased by 157% in average after graduating. Impressive. Not so impressive for Brazil's FIA - Fundação Instituto de Administração, whose students only see a 12% increase. is Brazil's job market for qualified executives really that non-lucrative? Or could it be that their average salary (at 220,589 USD) is already as high as it can get?

- Almost every graduate from ESCP-EAP European School of Management has had a promotion, where as just a few from Florida International University: Chapman have had it. Weird stuff. Perhaps the later gets very senior people as students, and there's isn't anything left to promote them to? Except that the data should also include employer changes.. hmm

- Wharton wins over the research ladder, where as Ipade in Mexico is at the bottom, with Pepperdine Graziadio from the USA.


Pic: me on my graduation day, receiving my 2 diplomas (one for the EMBA degree, and a second one for graduating first in academic standing).

You have probably been wondering why is this topic relevant to startups?

It is somewhat relevant for two reasons:

1) There's plenty to benefit from a top-notch academic degree even in startups. Strategic thinking and understanding of the "big picture of business" will help you along many steps of the way. Not to mention that these kinds of degrees also teach you leadership and communication skills, and you get to network with other brilliant students.

2) Jason Calacanis has named this time "the startup depression", and one of the best things to do during such a time is to get your degree done, if you haven't already. If things don't look so bright in your startup career: to back to school for a few years and come back with a vengeance when things are looking up again.

There's a downside: good degrees cost money. Mine cost about 40.000 EUR total, and it all came out of my own pocket. Still 40K is less than a typical angel investment; which is asking, is it worth it? almost certainly it is. Go for it.

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What's the benefit of an EMBA

What's the benefit of an EMBA vs an MBA? I thought the EMBA was aimed at the management of biggish firms whereas the MBA is more aimed at junior managers. Perhaps entrepreneurs wanting to found a company and then leave after a few years might be better suited to the MBA. What do you think?

My view on MBA vs EMBA

Jon: from what I know of the contents of a typical MBA program vs a typical EMBA program is that: EMBA is targeted towards top-management, C-level or "CEO" stuff, where MBA is more of a "middle management in a big firm" kind of approach, where you never get really into the Big Picture stuff of strategy and broad expertise insight. The goal of an MBA is to educate you to be a competent mid-level manager in a corporation, where as in EMBA you get the stuff that you can utilize while being CEO or one of the top executives.

So it's not really "managers of bigger firms" vs "junior managers". It's more of a "top management" vs "middle managers" - regardless of the firm size.

And you can kind of tell this by the students who go there. My EMBA group had executives there that had close to 20,000 employees working in their companies/divisions/units (that they headed). And a few CEOs of mid-sized firms, leaders in their own fields. You don't get that kind of crowd showing up to the more "mid-management" MBA programs.

EMBA emphasis is on things like: strategy, differentiation, brand, shareholder value creation, leadership, making public speeches, creating and directing high-level processes etc. Where as MBA programs have more mid-manager and "junior" stuff like: understanding management in general, accounting, managing people's performance, managing systems and projects, managing financial resources, corporate governance, marketing, etc... get the idea? EMBA programs typically have 8-10 years of management experience as an entry requirement; so they assume that all students already know and "get" the junior and mid-management stuff entirely.

My EMBA annual class average age was more than 12 years older than me; which is to say that I was the youngest student there.

MBAs and Grad Schools. No thanks!

Taneli said, "[...]one of the best things to do during such a time is to get your degree done, if you haven't already. If things don't look so bright in your startup career: to back to school for a few years and come back with a vengeance when things are looking up again."

I could not disagree more!

Let me quote Paul Graham here:

"what matters is who you are, not when you do it. If you're the right sort of person, you'll win even in a bad economy. And if you're not, a good economy won't save you. Someone who thinks 'I better not start a startup now, because the economy is so bad' is making the same mistake as the people who thought during the Bubble 'all I have to do is start a startup, and I'll be rich.'"

Why I personally believe it's actually better to start a startup when the economy is not at its best is, as Graham also attests, because there is less competition in the market. Let me quote again:

"Another advantage of bad times is that there's less competition. Technology trains leave the station at regular intervals. If everyone else is cowering in a corner, you may have a whole car to yourself.

...

[Y]ou're buying stock with work: the reason Larry and Sergey are so rich is not so much that they've done work worth tens of billions of dollars, but that they were the first investors in Google. And like any investor you should buy when times are bad."

So, I believe, that if you want to go to a Grad School to do an MBA, do that. But if you want to start a company and happen know the right people to do it with, the MBA does not get you one bit closer to to your goal. Quite the opposite, it makes you frustrated as you are postponing the thing you really want to do.

So it all depends on who you are and what you want, but given that you're reading Taneli's blog (which is one of the better ones out there), I'm guessing you're at least a little interested in setting up a company if you haven't already (this means also all of you VCs who really want to run one of those successful companies, but are too afraid to take the risk). Thus, my advice to you is that you should go for it(!), regardless of what the stock market might look like.

That said, I might myself do an MBA one day. But if that day comes, that's what I really want to do on that given day. I certainly won't do it to play time if all I really want to do is start a company.

See Paul Graham's article here: http://www.paulgraham.com/badeconomy.html

Controversy!

I love finally seeing some disagreement and controversy here ;-)

Of course I'm smiling 'cause I agree with what you are saying: 1) doing an MBA is never the best choice of everyone, 2) who you are matters THE MOST (who you are makes a difference). Education doesn't really matter: look at the famous high school dropouts (Bill Gates etc) as living proof of that. 3) It has always been a very smart thing to do stuff that not everyone around you are doing; like think differently, take bold moves where others don't etc.. that will often get you into trouble, but will more often than that pay off and teach you plenty. 4) if that's true for individuals it's MORE true to startups: they need to be different than the rest, it isn't even a choice, but a MUST.

Doing a MBA now might still make sense for some individuals, who don't have their stuff quite together yet. Taking a few years to develop your thinking and sharpen that master-plan might be worth it. There are stories of people coming back to business idea decades after they first had it, and still pulling it off in the end..

Some truth to it

Fair answer =) Still, I believe that doing an MBA if one does not have her stuff quite together yet, might be an OK move for one's CV ...but only if being an 'OK' is what you want to become. No better (even if a bit painful at times) way to figure out what you wanna do than trying it out. The lessons you learn are priceless.

Secondly, the opportunity cost shoots up as soon as you have the high prestige, Kellogg's business school MBA graduation diploma and a salary of mind boggling 345,159 USD waiting for you. In that situation it takes a one strong mind to try something that all your family and friends say is complete insanity. If you're a going to set up a business it will more in the lines of 'Let's set up a luxury hotel franchise just as I just have learned going through those 500 case studies with my fellow Harvard grads' (http://www.hbs.edu/research/case_method.htm).

What happens to you (or at least to most of us) is two fold:

1) After those 500 Case Studies, you think that you know the best course to take. A big mistake! You'd have to unlearn what works, because if your starting assumption is that you know works based on what has worked previously (Case studies anyone?), you are unlikely to try anything new which many times means also completely crazy on the face of it.

2)Like I said before, the opportunity cost is just too big. Nobody wants to throw away a hard earned and expensive MBA degree from an Ivy League school that has ranked in the top X in eg. FT's Global Ranking, let alone do something totally off the wall that they could've done even without any MBA. Add here the fact that the economy is still stagnating after the downturn (remember we went to the grad school went it all collapsed) and you remember what is was eating that macaroni and cheese for two years in the university and now McKinsey is offering you a Associate position with a three figure salary and a social status to go with it.

Where all this leads to is that you mind end up being the VP Marketing or even the CEO of the country's third largest super market chain, but you will never be the guy who changed everything for better. It is highly unlikely that you will be that guy whatever you do, but by taking the McKinsey route you won't even have a shot at it. And 'having a shot at it' is what makes the life interesting. See what I mean =)

Sucking the life out of you

Quite a rant there by Ville ;) But it is more well-placed than it is anything else. Unfortunately I'v seen just that happen to people - and what essentially happens is that McKinsey or somebody else "sucks the life out of you" after which it takes more effort than ever before to try to make some change happen - either personal, societal or just a startup. People are so easy to get "stuck on track" and so afraid of change and taking risks that it isn't even funny anymore. It's just the same sad scenario repeating over and over endlessly..

Despite of reading all those case studies and graduating 1st in my class I have still managed to avoid most of that. What has helped me? People don't get how healthy doze of cynicism and borderline-nihilism I really inherit :-) Having some of that in there helps to keep things healthy in a Fight Club -kindof way: you are not the things you own, etc. I'm not in it for any big goal or grand prize, I'm in it for the ride and the journey.

Students Pay Attention!!

This is a very useful blog for students. It has all the educational stuff. EMBA is really good & beneficial for students.

========================================
Jane
WOW Gold

Excellently written article,

Excellently written article, if only all bloggers offered the same content as you, the internet would be a much better place. Please keep it up! Cheers.

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